Comments on Faithful Agitation: Proving We’re Presbyterian … and Killing Ourselves...

I just want to affirm John's comment on this matte...

2008-09-28T14:01:00.000-05:00

I just want to affirm John's comment on this matter and assure all of you that there's no sinister plot here ;-)

It came from those of us who have been meeting as a small group for the last four years or so and have been trying to find a new way to be presbytery together.

There was no advanced notice of the motion because it was just put together the week before the presbytery

As one of the small group that put this motion tog...

2008-09-28T07:09:00.000-05:00

As one of the small group that put this motion together, I can say that we are delighted that it received such a wonderful reception. Second, we fully expected that it would be referred somewhere and not acted upon last week. It is too big a concept to be swallowed whole in one discussion. So I did not see the action to refer to the next meeting as problematic but rather as part of the NCP

Perhaps what we will do is get in touch with the m...

2008-09-26T21:16:00.000-05:00

Perhaps what we will do is get in touch with the movers of the motion and ask what we can do to help them put meat on the bones.

Perhaps that might mean many of us will become MORE involved in Presbytery affairs so that the councils and committees are full to the brim with knowledgeable, competent, spirit filled people who are doing God's work with integrity.

Perhaps what we

Now, friends, there was no one who spoke against t...

2008-09-26T08:32:00.000-05:00

Now, friends, there was no one who spoke against the motion to do things differently. No one. The body as a whole rejected the idea of letting the council deal with the issue. I think this is because the gathered commissioners WANT to deal it and do so fairly and intelligently. Dick is on the mark in that anyone who has ever tried to do something different in a church setting should know that it

I believe the very real details of doing the busin...

2008-09-26T08:15:00.000-05:00

I believe the very real details of doing the business of Presbytery can be managed in a variety of ways. I'm not suggesting that it would be easy, certainly not in the beginning, or not require some serious, creative work. It would certainly require giving more power and authority to smaller entities, as Dick suggests.

I also believe the step would force us to work differently - at least

Dick, I can see that you experience the grace of G...

2008-09-26T07:47:00.000-05:00

Dick, I can see that you experience the grace of God through parliamentary procedure. This is evident in the careful way you explain the rules. It's a pastoral and effective way for you to function. I appreciate that. But what I also see is that it doesn't work that way for everybody. And I have this notion that it won't work at all as the generations continue to turnover. I can't imagine my

Just for the record, I had absolutely nothing to d...

2008-09-25T21:23:00.000-05:00

Just for the record, I had absolutely nothing to do with the proposal, and, having arrived fashionably late (!) didn't know anything about it at all until after lunch. While I agree that there was a certain "Paulsen-esque" air about the proposal, I still found it overwhelmingly sad to sit in a room all day serving the needs of the institution, while all creation was right outside the windows

Friends-- you all presented a wonderful idea that ...

2008-09-25T15:43:00.000-05:00

Friends-- you all presented a wonderful idea that you had obviously worked hard on-- and you're astonished that people who had just seen it earlier that same day weren't ready to join the parade! Come on now. You're opposed to parliamentary procedure-- but the use of that procedure and our own policies got you on the agenda of a meeting you weren't part of originally.

The fact that the

i left the previous comment about providing more i...

2008-09-25T15:18:00.000-05:00

i left the previous comment about providing more information - i did not inted to be anonymous

I too feel that there was interest in the room had...

2008-09-25T15:12:00.000-05:00

I too feel that there was interest in the room had the group provided more information as to how we get there - you can't just assume the business will get done.

I've about had it with "in order' and "out of orde...

2008-09-23T23:54:00.000-05:00

I've about had it with "in order' and "out of order." The whole thing seemed way out of order to me and not in the technical sense but in the deeper sense of what we as a people are yearning for in our life together. Nearly 30 years we have been saying we need to do these gathering differently and when we have the chance what do we do? Put it off until another day, giving ample time for the man

Wow, David, I said something similar on the way ba...

2008-09-23T18:58:00.000-05:00

Wow, David, I said something similar on the way back from Meadowkirk, that there were so many tensions within me following the day. There was enough of an opportunity for the shy beast of my soul to emerge, in the sacred space that is Meadowkirk and the inspiring music provided in worship. Yet it seems this only made me that much more vulnerable to the disappointment in the sluggish albatross

I was at Meadowkirk too and feel that the motion w...

2008-09-23T17:09:00.000-05:00

I was at Meadowkirk too and feel that the motion would have passed if: People knew aboutit ahead of time, the implication for doing the regular work - incoming pastors etc. was addressed more clearly, and the moderator had used Roberts Rules clearly rather than muddying the water by misnaming what we were voting on. I too felt a need to be outdoor and have a chance to talk to others. We